Wednesday, October 17, 2007

Love and Marriage?

As everyone here knows, I am a recent newlywed and a strong advocate of healthy, happy marriages and relationships. Married people generally live longer, healthier, wealthier lives than their single counterparts, and societies and communities with large married populations tend to share the same characteristics of greater relative stability and affluence. As social animals, human beings need each other, not merely to thrive, but to survive.

Therefore, I understand the perfectly natural desire to seek out companionship and love. It is sad that so many young black women are actually encouraged to view this wholly natural and healthy desire as suspect and greedy, as if wanting a loving relationship with a decent man is somehow pathological. But the inspiration for my last post about “taking stock” was conversations that I have witnessed, on and off the blogosphere, in which young women have expressed a desire for relationships that struck me as somewhat premature.

I say this because while healthy relationships are an incredibly constructive force in the lives of both individuals and communities, unhealthy relationships exert an equally destructive force in the lives of those who live them and live around them. There any number of reasons why relationships go wrong, but I have always been a strong believer that most relationships that fail do so ultimately at conception—the parties enter into them for the wrong reasons, at the wrong point in their lives, with the wrong partners, or without the emotional wherewithal to sustain coupledom over the long-term. And the main motivation for making and sticking with these wrong choices, even after we realize their wrongfulness, is loneliness and the fear of being alone.

More than once when I was single, I went on a second date or gave a guy a third chance because I was able to convince myself that I was being “open” and flexible. In reality, I just didn’t want to be alone. That is normal; but we have to recognize such longing for what it is, and ensure that it doesn’t entrap us in a situation that we will eventually grow to regret. There’s nothing wrong with being “just friends,” as long as you both know that’s what it is.

I also think it is crucial to make peace with yourself, so that the goal of marriage or a long-term relationship doesn’t become all-consuming. I think because of the diminishing role of marriage in the black community, some of us have adopted a focus on marriage which borders on the obsessive. As positive as marriage can be, I have never been a believer that marriage, in and of itself, can make an unhappy person happy. Nor do I think it wise to put so much of the responsibility for your own well-being and fulfillment in the hands of another, which is necessarily the case if you feel that you must be married to be complete. Plenty of single people lead joyful, productive lives, and plenty of married people are miserable drags on society. A bad marriage doesn’t do anyone any good, and bad marriages too often result from desperation.

None of this is said to discourage black women from seeking serious relationships and marriage with worthy men. I adamantly reject the message that discourages black women from aspiring to marriage, that encourages them to settle for “man-sharing” and “babymamahood,” or to accept decades of celibacy rather than exploring every available option for finding the partners we want and deserve. I just think that it is important to recognize that you cannot have a good relationship with a man if you are not content within yourself. Do you like what you see when you look in the mirror? Do you enjoy what you spend your days doing? Do you have a plan for your life beyond finding a husband? Our marital choices are crucial, but so are the choices we make about our careers, in caring for our health, in maintaining our relationships with our families, etc. Always--always--empower yourself, by making your life as full and complete as you can. To gain a man but lose yourself is truly a hollow "victory."

99 comments:

gatamala said...

PREACH!!!

Let Love Rule said...

I so needed to read this at this moment.

I have always believed it's very important to make friends with yourself first and know who you are before you venture out into relationships. I know of some people who have never spent a day alone and have no clue about their own inner workings. So many people don't know who they are and what they want in life, which is vital to understanding what kind of partner is right for you.

On the other hand I think earlier this year it was reported that for the first time there are more single people in this country than married. I think what is happening is that between career demands, technology, and perhaps narcissism (as in me, me,me) many have become less capable of forming serious LTRs.

This is not to say that marriage is the ideal state. Each woman has to understand what's right for her. But I think, it's a very serious thing to think about early on for women, because we do have biological clocks and must consider the ramifications of waiting until 40 to figure out whether we'd like a child for instance. (And yes I understand that marriage doesn't neccassarily mean children and vis versa.)

I have to say this because I never see this mentioned, but there's a stereotype of men that they are all just interested in sex or whatever. And I think it's not true.

I've watched as so many men hit their late 30s or 40 and not having been married or had a child. And very often these men go nuts as in are desperate to find a mate and have a child. It's very funny for me to watch. Unfortunately for older women these men are often looking for younger women just to breed. LOL but sometimes they'll marry into a ready made family.

My point is we oftwn think of women of a certain age as desperate but I've seen many,many men just as desperate to be married and make baby.

PioneerValleyWoman said...

Great post, Aimee, as usual.

But it is so hard, though, to minimize the impact of those societal messages that affect women as a whole, that there is something "wrong" with them if they are unmarried at a certain age. People presume they are gay. How often do we tease little girls and ask them "who is your boyfriend," long before having a boyfriend has any real significance in their lives.

It is truly sad the way the social dating game can push women to desperation and behaviors that indicate a lack of self-respect in the way your describe, and in a post on my blog recently, that can masquerade as racial superiority, in the form of white women in public disrespecting black women's relationships by flirting aggressively with the black women's partners.

Sandra said...

Aimee, so very well said!

Pamela said...

I humbly feel statements like 'Married people generally live longer, healthier, wealthier lives than their single counterparts' perpetuate the desperation of single people. I have yet to find out how they gather their data to support this. I have heard this quoted particularily in Christian churches for many, many years. It has made Christian singles to feel like cow chips. It did not help that there was nothing for singles to do but attend the Christian meat markets called singles ministries. Basically we are less than the married because they supposedly have so much. However way too many of them are not staying married.

I have not found this in my experience. There are very happy contented singles and miserable marrieds. I have also found that there is no real distinction relating marital status to wealthier lives, financial or otherwise. I humbly feel that the issue has to do with choices made. Choices are made by individuals. Married people and single people can make wonderful choices or horrible ones. Marital status has nothing to do with whether a person has wisdom or stupidity. Your points about unhealthy relationships bear this out.

I do not downgrade the importance of marriage. God would not have created it. However that statement I sincerely question.

I'm glad things are going well for you Aimee. A good friend of mine just got married a month ago. She is an older single (45). Her husband is 50 (never married). I believe they will do well because both of them have some sense:)

Anonymous said...

Aimee, with all due respect, sometimes I think you are an apologist for BM. The fact of the matter is that females NEED HELP in liking what they see in the mirror, and SOMEBODY ain't doing his job in that regard,strutting down the strret with his Blonde White girlfriend on his arm.

Anonymous said...

pionereervalleywoman, you are so correct. The behavior of these White women and the BM qwho love them is sickening, both of them behave this way right in front of BWs faces, and I am really sick and tired of it.

Let Love Rule said...

I must be a total alien, because when I see BM with WW I don't feel or think a thing, other than perhaps more power to you, hope you're happy.

It makes no difference to me what some strange bm decides to sleep or mate with. WHO CARES!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't understand the focus on who bm date. If you feel good about yourself, you shouldn't need strange men to help you with your self esteem. If you're waiting for someone else to validate your existence, you might be waiting a long time.

pinkydj said...

@LLR and anon...I used to feel the irritation of bm with ww..but one day (praise God)...I had a revelation that bm with ww had ZERO to do with ME.

It's not about YOU. I'm sure there are bm in loving relationships with ww and I'm sure there are bm with ww for "other" reasons. It's all the SAME to me now...as in ....it has NO reflection on me as a person or my life's joy.

pinky

PioneerValleyWoman said...

The stories I was talking about had to do with black women partnered with men, black as well as white, who were going about their daily lives: shopping, socializing, etc.

These partnered black women were being accosted by single white women trying to pick up the black women's men. They were being pretty sleazy about it, in moves that were incredibly disrespectful of the black women.

I wasn't talking about white women with black men trying to show off in front of single black women.

Let Love Rule said...

PVW,

I totally got your comment and post and agree with your analysis that it is very wrong for women to hit on another's mate. And especially appreciated your analysis of mating hierarchy.

I think one of the anons misinterpreted you and went on their own tsngent. Which is fine but I just don't get the whole bm suck for dating ww thing.

PioneerValleyWoman said...

Thanks, LLR!

I'm with you on that. Focusing too much on the personal lives of complete strangers is a sure enough way to some serious unhappiness!

Bebe Moore Campbell, the author who died somewhat recently, wrote about this in an essay, Wild Women Don't Wear No Blues.

It was like a drug, she could always catch a fix of anger and rage over black men's personal dating choices.

She was married to a black man, so one might imagine that she would be so focused on herself and her life to care, but she just couldn't, until she realized she just had to move on:

"I'm tired of putting my mood at the mercy of chance encounters with strangers. I'm too old for this shit. I want peace of mind. I am ready to relinquish my anger." p124.

PioneerValleyWoman said...

I realize too, LLR that someone misconstrued my post, and perhaps even misconstrued Aimee's. Hers didn't seem to talk in any way about white women and black men.

Keya said...

It's bad that the state of "the black world" is to be a baby momma. I get tons of guy that ask me, do I have any kids, what about asking me am I married. I am clearly wearing a wedding band take a look. Then when I say I don't have kids they ask me why? Like it's a crime not to have kids. I'm still only 28. It's like all black men want to do is impregnat woman & not marry them, or have nothing to offer them. I get tons of guys who ask me out that don't have a job & are on medicaid. I want to know why would this professional lady want to go out with you, so I can take care of you. NOT!

caligirl94117 said...

"Then when I say I don't have kids they ask me why? Like it's a crime not to have kids."

Oh, Keya, since I'm still single, I usually answer them by saying "I don't have kids because I'm not married". You should listen to the diatribe about how I don't need to be married to have kids. I've even had older black woman relatives sit me down for this talk. For me, it's like a trip to the Twilight Zone to have my elders try to dupe me! I don't want to be a single mom. If I don't marry, I won't have kids.

D said...

Aimee... on the original post... 100% right on the money. : )

Anonymous 10/17 9:20 said...
females NEED HELP in liking what they see in the mirror, and SOMEBODY ain't doing his job in that regard, strutting down the strret with his Blonde White girlfriend on his arm.

Sorry, Anonymous, I have to disagree with you on this... a BW cannot control whether a BM does or does not date blondes... and focusing the blame on BM takes away the power from BW to do something about it. I think it's healthier for BW to decide they have the power to make their own decisions, for whatever reasons they deem fit, and then they go do what they want. It doesn't matter whether she chooses a BM, or a WM, or a HM, or an AM... she has the choice to do what is best for her, and should do so.

Let Love Rule said...
I must be a total alien, because when I see BM with WW I don't feel or think a thing, other than perhaps more power to you, hope you're happy.

It makes no difference to me what some strange bm decides to sleep or mate with. WHO CARES!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't understand the focus on who bm date. If you feel good about yourself, you shouldn't need strange men to help you with your self esteem. If you're waiting for someone else to validate your existence, you might be waiting a long time.


AMEN!

pinkydj said...
I used to feel the irritation of bm with ww..but one day (praise God)...I had a revelation that bm with ww had ZERO to do with ME.

It's not about YOU. I'm sure there are bm in loving relationships with ww and I'm sure there are bm with ww for "other" reasons. It's all the SAME to me now...as in ....it has NO reflection on me as a person or my life's joy.


Ditto, another great observation

-----------------------------------------

On a tangent... I think it's also possible to understand the concept of not settling for marriage just to be married, and waiting for the right one... but at the same time not finding "the one" because you're not ready... you're not open. And maybe using the "I won't settle" thing as a crutch or excuse as to why no progress is being made.

I think this has been true for me... for whatever reason, I have not met somebody to take down the aisle... and I've been on the market for 10 years now. But it's not that there's no good ones out there... there are. I just wasn't ready, for whatever reason, so I just didn't find myself in situations very much where I was running into what could be "the one"...

I am at a point now where I'm ready and I know it... and even though "the one" hasn't found me, or I her... the right kind of energy seems to be flowing a lot better now that I'm at least open to now being the time.

gatamala said...

Your comment about the mirror reflects what got me out of a bad marriage.

I looked into the mirror and couldn't believe what I had become.

It has taken me years to even want to be in a relationship again.

I forced myself to learn to eat alone, or go to the movies alone. I had to get over the fear of being alone (as opposed to loneliness).

Now, I know that there are some things I can't accept, some things I must have and a whole lot of little things than I can live with & even learn to love!

Daphne said...

Aimee - get outta my head! Seems like you have this ability to relay via the written word to articulate what I've thought about or am currently thinking about so well! Stop it (kidding)! It's scary!

Halima said...

But the inspiration for my last post about “taking stock” was conversations that I have witnessed, on and off the blogosphere, in which young women have expressed a desire for relationships that struck me as somewhat premature.

Can i just add that these days I don’t even preach to bw to do relationships for ‘good reasns’, because what is a good reason? I have seen people come together for the most trivial reason/non PC intentions ‘in my mind’ and they are still going strong. when those who did it for the 'right' reasons have broken up. What is more important I am beginning to believe, is the unwritten contract that exists between two people who come toegther and how much they accept to abide totally by this underlying contract between them or rework this contract as time goes by.

Hence a woman agrees to exchange her youth and beauty for a man’s wealth. If he becomes bankrupt and regardless of how much we want to blame her for being shallow, they both agreed to this ‘contract’ and she has every right to leave if she so desires. For me, as long as you and he understand why you are in a relationship I have no qualms.

Bw get preached to all the time to be circumspect in their ways, ww and others never do. The result is that many of us end up feeling we have to do something more to get to that place, or we are not good enough and need to develop more, or we have to reach a certain maturity level or something before we can rightly entertain relationships, or the latest one that the reason why we don’t have a man is that we haven’t done the necessary work on ourself. Tell me, do people bother to tell the men who we are suppose to be polishing up for, to do anything. No, most believe like in ocean 13 that ‘they are born ready’. This to me again underscores the subordinate/diminished positioning ascribed to bw; the fact that we are ‘deficient’ when all others are ready at anytime.

lets face it, we are entering relationships with fallible men who will get up to all sorts, make mistakes, fart in bed (lol!), yet we are suppose to be perfect; whats that all about!

Early this year some one wrote to me to put a link on my blog, she said she was moved by my blog and wanted to get bw ready for relationships etc. I wrote back that I would put the link, but that she was perfect as she was and should just get on with dating and forget about any sort of PD. Why did I say this? Dont i want folks to better themselves? No i said this because anyone that shows that ability to ‘self-reflect’, is more than perfect for relationships.

Notice that in the old days nobody thought that folks needed personal development before they were marriageable. You were raedy at 18, 21 and what have you. Unless you were locked up in prison it was believed that life had more than enough ‘lessons’ to bring you up to a point of marriage, not having to work through ‘know thyself’ book by the latest self improvement guru lol!

bw need to ease up, they are doing way more than others when it comes to these things!

Halima said...

oops i think i used the wrong word in my post but i think you all 'dig' my point lol!

Aimee said...

PioneerValleyWoman said...

But it is so hard, though, to minimize the impact of those societal messages that affect women as a whole, that there is something "wrong" with them if they are unmarried at a certain age.

This pressure was probably what motivated me to write more than anything else. To want human companionship is healthy and natural, but too often our society manipulates that natural impulse to try and control women and convince them that "getting" a man should be their sole goal in life. The desire for love and family aren't supposed to be a PART of life for women, but our sole reason for being; and women who "can't find a man," of course are deemed to have no reason to live, no matter how otherwise full and wonderful their lives are.

It is truly sad the way the social dating game can push women to desperation and behaviors that indicate a lack of self-respect in the way your describe, and in a post on my blog recently, that can masquerade as racial superiority, in the form of white women in public disrespecting black women's relationships by flirting aggressively with the black women's partners.

I read that post and was disgusted to hear of that happening, because its something I've never experienced. I guess the flipside of being nothing without a man is that ANY effort made to "get" a man becomes acceptable, even total disrespect of other women--which makes perfect sense if you don't think much of your own value as a woman anyway.

Aimee said...

Pamela said...

I humbly feel statements like 'Married people generally live longer, healthier, wealthier lives than their single counterparts' perpetuate the desperation of single people. I have yet to find out how they gather their data to support this.

I have no desire to perpetuate anyone's desperation, but the data on longevity, health and wealth in married vs. single populations has been fairly well established for quite a while. That doesn't mean that a single person can't be healthy, wealthy and long-lived, or that all married people will enjoy these advantages; only that generally, across populations, marriage is generally correlated with better health, longer life, and greater relative affluence.

I only pointed it out here because I wanted it to be clear that my message is not "anti-marriage," and that I acknowledge the positive role that marriage can play in individual lives and whole societies. I just believe as an individual decision, the choice to marry has to made for the right reasons.

I'm glad things are going well for you Aimee. A good friend of mine just got married a month ago. She is an older single (45). Her husband is 50 (never married). I believe they will do well because both of them have some sense:)

Thank you--the value of having some sense can't be overstated, so I think your friend and her hubby should be okay. LOL!

October 17, 2007 5:56 PM

PioneerValleyWoman said...

Keya:

It's bad that the state of "the black world" is to be a baby momma. I get tons of guy that ask me, do I have any kids, what about asking me am I married. I am clearly wearing a wedding band take a look.

Caligirl:

You should listen to the diatribe about how I don't need to be married to have kids. I've even had older black woman relatives sit me down for this talk.

My response:

What is amazing is that some of the people who express these ideas of marriage not being necessary for parenthood love to talk about the importance of children, of having family. Some are black nationalist types who have an interest in building up the "black nation," but forget that families are the foundation of the nation, for all peoples, no matter where they are!

The ancient and contemporary black civilizations they love to idolize focus on family, tribe, nation, etc., and family is predicated on marriage, first, second and third. But somehow for these faux nationalists, marriage is irrelevant, and a family, tribe and nation can be built upon a community of baby mammas and baby daddies with no commitment to each other, and sometimes with no commitment to the children they have brought into the world. Yeah right.

Aimee:

I read that post and was disgusted to hear of that happening, because its something I've never experienced. I guess the flipside of being nothing without a man is that ANY effort made to "get" a man becomes acceptable, even total disrespect of other women--which makes perfect sense if you don't think much of your own value as a woman anyway.

My reply:

That is what I was thinking too. Fortunately, I have never had that problem, but yes, it's about women who don't see themselves as anything much without a man, feeling a need to score and prove themselves worthwhile in their ability to get one, so why not try and score against a woman you think of is inferior to you? Talk about fake self-esteem!

Anonymous said...

I can see some people do not want to face the turth, and it is really quite sad. I can tell you how a lot of people in this world feel about Black women, but if you do not want to face the truth, I cannot force you to. On the one hand, you want to sit up here and defend BM nd their WW chasing, and then complain when the same WW chase BM when he is with his BW partner. Well, what do you think created that situation? Come on, let's be adults here and not live in fantasy land okay? If people keep justifying BM chasing WW, you are going to get cases like that, that is just human nature. Ignoring a problem will not make it go away. 70% of BW are single yet someone here does not get why BM with WW suck? That is crazy. The IR dating scene in the BC is not an equal playing field. If it is, then can you please explain to me why it is 70% of BW that are single? 70% of BM are not single. I am really disappointed in all of this pussyfooting around about a very sickening problem. And finally, if BM are so great, wonderful, hunky dory, and all the rest, then why are you on a blog for BW who date WM? Why create a blog like this at all? Why not just go out and date BM since they love BW so much and support you so much? Why are 70% of BW single? I know the truth hurts, and some people prefer to bury their heads in the sand, but that will not change anything. I see how people talk about BW in real life, and online, and it is not pretty. And some of this anti-BW stuff is coming from WW and BM, who you seem to love defending, well go right ahead and keep defending them, while they both laugh at you.


So sad really. Smart, intelligent women like yourselves refusing to see the truth.

Aimee said...

Halima said...

Can i just add that these days I don’t even preach to bw to do relationships for ‘good reasns’, because what is a good reason? I have seen people come together for the most trivial reason/non PC intentions ‘in my mind’ and they are still going strong. when those who did it for the 'right' reasons have broken up. What is more important I am beginning to believe, is the unwritten contract that exists between two people who come toegther and how much they accept to abide totally by this underlying contract between them or rework this contract as time goes by.

I agree that someone on the outside looking in can't judge the reasons why other people choose to enter or stay in a relationship; if they're happy, I'm happy for them. But I think that's the key: if they're happy. I just don't think entering a weak relationship to escape one's own insecurities will lead to happiness or long-term well-being. I see plenty of sisters in ATBUs who have done this, and they usually end up pretty sorry.

the latest one that the reason why we don’t have a man is that we haven’t done the necessary work on ourself. Tell me, do people bother to tell the men who we are suppose to be polishing up for, to do anything. No, most believe like in ocean 13 that ‘they are born ready’. This to me again underscores the subordinate/diminished positioning ascribed to bw; the fact that we are ‘deficient’ when all others are ready at anytime.

I think you're right that BW are sent different messages about relationships; but I think that the underlying message we're both rejecting is the same: you aren't good enough as you are, in and of yourself--either to "get" a man, or simply to live a fulfilled life, regardless of whether a man is around or not.

I see what you have been struggling against is the mentality that tells BW to settle, for being alone or being with even the most inadequate BM, because they have no other choice--they can do no better.

I don't think BW have to improve in order to be "worthy" of a man; I think that all people have to find satisfaction within themselves, or they won't have good relationships or good lives.

Notice that in the old days nobody thought that folks needed personal development before they were marriageable. You were raedy at 18, 21 and what have you. Unless you were locked up in prison it was believed that life had more than enough ‘lessons’ to bring you up to a point of marriage, not having to work through ‘know thyself’ book by the latest self improvement guru lol!

That's true, but in the past marriages had a level of social support and integration into the social fabric that they generally lack today; your parents may have chosen your spouse for you, and he almost certainly would have been of the same race, same social class, same religion, from the same small community, maybe even the same clan. Today, we make these decisions on our own, and that requires a level of insight into ourselves that marrying your 2nd cousin from down the road and moving to your in-law's farm at 15 just doesn't require. LOL!

bw need to ease up, they are doing way more than others when it comes to these things!

Agreed!

Ruth LaMorena said...

Your post is right on, Aimee. It's the main reason I started my blog. Like you stated in a previous post, my life as a single woman is also full. I wanted to reflect how full and fulfilling my life already is while acknowledging my desire for a long term relationship...

Ah well, back to writing that report for work - just wanted to check in.

http://meditationsonreeducation.blogspot.com

Anonymous said...

I agree with a lot of what you said Aimee. I take issue with this emphasis on marriage as a source of love, happiness, and companionship. I maintain that healthy and STABLE marriages are not based on love, especially romantic love, but on tradition, social pressure from community and commitment to family. In stable societies with strong families, love and happiness are not major considerations in the decision to create or dissolve a marriage. The fragile state of marriage and relationships today is primarily due to placing love and happiness as the basis of the relationship. This is characteristic of most lower and middle class marriages in western society. The characteristics of black relationships are what most relationships in America are going to look like within the next decade. It happens in the black community first because we are closer to the edge.
Also, why do married people tend to speak with so much authority about relationships and marriage when the state of marriage these days in western society is such dire shape? As to whether it is better to be married or single, it probably depends on which group singles you compare married people with. I think two major reasons there are so many dire statistics about single people are (1) women who have children out of wedlock, and (2) divorcees. I wonder if married people outshine single people without children. I doubt it.

dottie said...

Anonymous said...

I can see some people do not want to face the turth, and it is really quite sad. I can tell you how a lot of people in this world feel about Black women, but if you do not want to face the truth, I cannot force you to. On the one hand, you want to sit up here and defend BM nd their WW chasing, and then complain when the same WW chase BM when he is with his BW partner. Well, what do you think created that situation? Come on, let's be adults here and not live in fantasy land okay? If people keep justifying BM chasing WW, you are going to get cases like that, that is just human nature. Ignoring a problem will not make it go away. 70% of BW are single yet someone here does not get why BM with WW suck? That is crazy. The IR dating scene in the BC is not an equal playing field. If it is, then can you please explain to me why it is 70% of BW that are single? 70% of BM are not single. I am really disappointed in all of this pussyfooting around about a very sickening problem. And finally, if BM are so great, wonderful, hunky dory, and all the rest, then why are you on a blog for BW who date WM? Why create a blog like this at all? Why not just go out and date BM since they love BW so much and support you so much? Why are 70% of BW single? I know the truth hurts, and some people prefer to bury their heads in the sand, but that will not change anything. I see how people talk about BW in real life, and online, and it is not pretty. And some of this anti-BW stuff is coming from WW and BM, who you seem to love defending, well go right ahead and keep defending them, while they both laugh at you.


So sad really. Smart, intelligent women like yourselves refusing to see the truth.
_____________________________________________________
All right, you've hit us with the "truth", what are the alternatives here? Because some of the women on here are choosing to move on with their lives with whomever they please.

Aimee said...

dottie said...

All right, you've hit us with the "truth", what are the alternatives here? Because some of the women on here are choosing to move on with their lives with whomever they please.

dottie, I honestly suspect this is a troll, doing what they always do--labeling any mention of BM on these blogs as "bashing," or trying to steer the discussion back to BM even when they aren't mentioned, so they can again claim that they are being "bashed."

If this person is sincere in their worry about all the BM dating WW who are "laughing" at BW, then I suggest that s/he start his or her own blog to address this issue, because I couldn't care less.

JJ said...

There any number of reasons why relationships go wrong, but I have always been a strong believer that most relationships that fail do so ultimately at conception—the parties enter into them for the wrong reasons, at the wrong point in their lives, with the wrong partners, or without the emotional wherewithal to sustain coupledom over the long-term. And the main motivation for making and sticking with these wrong choices, even after we realize their wrongfulness, is loneliness and the fear of being alone.


Amen

JJ said...

I maintain that healthy and STABLE marriages are not based on love, especially romantic love, but on tradition, social pressure from community and commitment to family. In stable societies with strong families, love and happiness are not major considerations in the decision to create or dissolve a marriage. The fragile state of marriage and relationships today is primarily due to placing love and happiness as the basis of the relationship.


Now that's spot on. Romantic Love (AKA Hollywood Love) is the worst damn reason in the world to get married.

And Western marriages are paying for such choices. Expectations are set to high and there is no basis for dealing with reality when the arm and fuzzes wear off.

JJ said...

That should say "warm and fuzzes."

Pamela said...

Aimee,

I see where you are coming from. You are taking it in a broader view in society as a whole. My comments came from a more personal view and how many single people interpret that. Those that are not secure take that statement personally. I'm not one of them, thank God.

Sad to say I have found that married people do not value their marriages as they should. Because of this they are careless in their behavior. I'm glad to see someone like you that champions marriage. When two people with sense get together they have a wonderful opportunity for an awesome relationship. I will be keeping in touch with my friend and her husband closely. They live out of state but we have been talking lately. I'm excited for them.

tasha said...

Gatamala said:

"PREACH!"

I second that! You have to love yourself (and what you're doing) before you let anyone else in your life, otherwise they'll become first in your life (and rightly so, if done right--but there are so many ways to go about doing that). Having a mate is supposed to complement your life, not complete it!

gatamala said...

I maintain that healthy and STABLE marriages are not based on love, especially romantic love, but on tradition, social pressure from community and commitment to family.


I would say that people stay married (don't get divorced) because of these factors. They do not necessarily have healthy or stable marriages.

jj makes a good point about other factors in a marriage/relationship.

Romantic love and oooh he's cute dissipate. Compassion, friendship, loyalty, kindness, shared interests - all of these which comprise love - are important. Shared values, social and economic parity are important too. Yet, when some of us focus on these last 3 criteria we get the "g" word...

JJ said...

Amen Gatamala

Say anything about Social and Economic parity and all hell breaks loose.

I was once told that I hated Black men because I suggested that being with a man of same socio-economic/education status was a necessity for me.

LOL.

Apparently I wouldnt be "Giving a brother a chance," and missing out on "Good brothers." If I looked at a man's ability to take care of, provide for and be there for his family.

Or as you noted being flat out called a goldigger.

LOL.

Whatever.

arthur said...

JJ said: I was once told that I hated Black men because I suggested that being with a man of same socio-economic/education status was a necessity for me.

That's just wrong. Being able to provide is not the only thing to consider in a possible husband, but it is one of the things that has to be there.

A man that expects a woman to pay most/all of the bills ... how does a man hold his head up in that kind of life?

Anonymous said...

Dottie, the truth is that BW are in a horrible situation as far as dating goes, and it seems to me that to sit here and try and deny that and pretend that BW interracial dating is somehow related to how other groups do it. I am sorry, but to the best of my knowledge, only BW have a 70% single rate, so that CLEARLY tells me that there is a very serious problem. Second, BW get slandered all the time both in real life, and in cyberspace, and a good amount of that slander comes from BM & WW, especially if they are dating each other. The slander is cold, cruel, and very insensitive to the plight of BW. Yet it seems to me that in YOUR space, you guys want to take the high road as it were, in regards to how you talk about WW & BM. I do not think they deserve that, and I believe in giving as good as you get, an eye for an eye. They (WW & BW) pull no punches in slandering and insulting BW, and I feel you should give it back to them in kind, that is all. For how long is the bias and abuse against BW going to go unanswered or unchallenged? If BW will not stand up for and defend each other, then tell me who will?


The truth I want you to face is that BW have been betrayed by who should have protected and loved them the most. This must be acknowledged, I am all for BW getting on with your lives, I just want you to give it those who have hurt you and not care about their feelings, because they have already shown me very clearly that they do not care about yours.

Anonymous said...

aimee, I can assure you that I am not any troll. I would rather not hear about BM or WW AT ALL on these blogs, but if they are going to be mentioned, then I would prefer not to see them be treated with kid gloves and be given treatment they do not deserve after they way they have hurt and insulted BW. I truly love and care about BW and I want you to be happy, that's all. I am not a troll, I am your friend.

Anonymous said...

but aimee, (That is such a pretty name. I am not trying to be fresh or anything. I just like that name a lot) if you do not care about those idiots laughing at BW, that is fine if you are strong enough to deal with it, but what about young and teenage Black girls? They may not be so emotionally strong yet, and it may hurt them very, very deeply to see how they are mocked and how these people do not care about their pain. It makes me very unhappy to think of all of the young Black girls in the world feeling so unloved. I bothers me very much aimee.

Let Love Rule said...

Angry Anon said ...
BW get slandered all the time both in real life, and in cyberspace, and a good amount of that slander comes from BM & WW...Yet it seems to me that in YOUR space, you guys want to take the high road as it were, in regards to how you talk about WW & BM. I do not think they deserve that, and I believe in giving as good as you get, an eye for an eye. They (WW & BW) pull no punches in slandering and insulting BW, and I feel you should give it back to them in kind, that is all.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Gracious.

Aimee, you just can't win. One week they're saying you're too angry at BM, the next not angry enough.

Look Angry Anon, I don't know you or your life, but I think I can understand some of your feelings especially if you have been the target of real life attacks by BM or WW.

But to stew in anger is not healthy. To sit in those feelings not only can harm your good health, but in the end prevent you from being free, because you then become a slave to how other people make you feel.

You see, YOU ARE THE ONE WHO CONTROLS YOUR FEELINGS, and in the end if you allow others to control you in this way you are giving over your power to others (stangers no less). And feelings lead to thoughts which lead to actions.

In the end YOU HAVE CHOICES. I choose to lead my life in a way which empowers ME.

Now BW have been under assault in this society for a long time. Why not focus on the white supremicist for example,insteadof BM? I suspect it has something to do with your own inherent hatred of bm.

I know that a BM on the street doesn't owe me a damn thing. And if he's a fool with a foul mouth or mean spirit, I simply stay away, the same as I would anyone else.

So you see you have a choice. One of those choices is to start your own blog (as opposed to telling other people to be angry). That way you can spew and steam everyday,several times a day, to your heart's content.

dottie said...

I understand that black women are treated like second class citizens, being betrayed and all. Hell, even bogged down by all those stereotypes and stuff from everyone. And yes, even that statistic bothers me so, but that doesn't mean that I'm gonna stop living my life to attack every black man in an IR, that's not in my character to do it. I don't like confrontation, especially if it's over stupid stuff like that. I can't help who he fell in love with, and neither can you. I'm not gonna spend the rest of my life in bitterness over it. And some IR couples don't carry a second agenda as to why they got together. So why assume that from every BM/WW couple? I have friends who are in IR and can and will tell you that he/she were crazy about that person.

Let Love Rule said...

Angry Anon said...

The truth I want you to face is that BW have been betrayed by who should have protected and loved them the most.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

You can only be betrayed by people you put your faith and trust in. I don't trust strange people I don't know. I have no faith in "the community". I take my time, get to know people, then establish trust. SO I do not feel betrayed by strangers.

No-one owes me anything and I don't owe anyone anything (except the CC company)! SO stop expecting strange people to be a certain way or make you happy. They have a right to find their own happiness, just like you have a right to find yours.

And if you're waiting for some prince charming BM to come along to be happy, you might be waiting a long,long time. So get over your anger, and get on with your life.

Tamika said...

Thank you for this. I need the inspiration!

Anonymous said...

Wow I use to employ 2 black guys to work for my company and we had become very good friends.

we had some very deep conversations about them dating outside their race.

They had said they prefer white women because they were finer,better looking,and a lot cleaner than their black sisters.

Daphne said...

They had said they prefer white women because they were finer,better looking,and a lot cleaner than their black sisters.

A lot cleaner? LOL! That's the most absurd thing I've read in a long time. I love how all kinds of nonsense comes out of the woodwork when someone speaks the truth, especially when it's completely irrelevant to what is being discussed. Whatever.

Aimee, thanks for always providing thought-provoking posts and generating (generally) intelligent discussion. After seeing Tyler Perry's latest film, your post is even more pertinent. Then again, maybe I'm the only one who believes Tyler doesn't think much of black women, at least based on how bw are portrayed in his movies.

Anonymous said...

let love rule, I am not just about anger, I am motivated by love. Please hear me out!


I do not know how to start a blog, but perhaps I will learn.

let love rule, even if we disagree about certain things, please just hear me out. I am your friend.


If any White supremicist is bothering or insulting BW then they are a stupid fool! Why did you think I would not say that, if that is what you thought? I only focused on the BM because I know how many BW are hurt by the way they mistreat and betray BW.

Anonymous said...

dottie, maybe if 70% of BW were not single, I would be more open to believing that these BM have simply fallen in love with their WW partners, but I just cannot get that statistic out of my mind, it is telling me that something is very wrong. I am not saying you have to attack them, just do not let them get away with attacking or insulting you. I am not here to focus on BM dating WW, I am here because I want to see BW be loved and happy.

Anonymous said...

let love rule, you make me laugh with what you just said. I can assure you that that is NOT what I am waiting for. What I am waiting for is the day that BW get treated with the love and respect they deserve, and reconized as the wonderful, loyal, loving, caring, intelligent, strong, resourceful, beautiful, charming, sexy, hard-working, and enterprising women that you are. I am waiting for the day when young Black girls feel loved, special, beautiful, and supported. Ny anger is about what has been done to BW, but my love will carry me through the day. It is because I love BW so much that I get so angry. But I can play my Whitney Houston CD to calm down. And think of men coming to love and treat BW how you deserve to be treated, which is why these blogs exist!

Anonymous said...

And let love rule, by suggesting that someone not wait for a BM prince, you are acknowledging that something is wrong. That is all that I ask, for it to be acknowledged that something is wrong.

Anonymous said...

Happy to see that the blog helps you tamika!

Anonymous said...

Ladies, look at what this jerk anon @ 8:22 said. Now do you see why I get so angry? And the sad thing is, I believe the fool is telling the truth about them saying that. I have heard BM say terrible things like that about BW for years.

Anon, you and those BM are all fools.

Halima said...

After seeing Tyler Perry's latest film, your post is even more pertinent. Then again, maybe I'm the only one who believes Tyler doesn't think much of black women, at least based on how bw are portrayed in his movies.

Daphne by jove, bw need a course in analysing film. i used to write for a film mag and i can tell you that there are ways of understanding and identifying themes and deeper meanings embeded in cinema.

like wte and dmbw, this film is going to reinforce the popular notion that bw bear a greater weight for making things work out for black relationships. i was so suprised that bw seem to have been sucked in again!

catching a clue appears to be very difficult for us bw!

Anonymous said...

daphne, you are not the only one who thinks that about Tyler Perry, I think that way about him too. He is an ignorant fool, and another reason why I get so mad. People like him, always putting BW down.

Let Love Rule said...

Anonymous said...
What I am waiting for is the day that BW get treated with the love and respect they deserve, and reconized as the wonderful, loyal, loving, caring, intelligent, strong, resourceful, beautiful, charming, sexy, hard-working, and enterprising women that you are. I am waiting for the day when young Black girls feel loved, special, beautiful, and supported.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I hear you Anon.

I'm simply saying STOP EXPECTING TO GET THESE THINGS FROM BM or anyone else. You are not owed anything.

The best you can do is LOVE YOURSELF, and when you do you won't waste your time with haters or look for or accept any abusive behavior.

Stop looking to other people to validate your existence. Find your validation with yourself and through your own righteous living.

I don't need BM or any man to appreciate or validate me. I know who I am and I'm not looking to any man to "recognized (me) as the wonderful, loyal, loving, caring, intelligent, strong, resourceful, beautiful, charming, sexy, hard-working, and enterprising women that (I am)." I don't need a man to know these things about myself.

And yes there is something wrong with waiting for a prince. It's called the Cinderella complex ie the inability to stand as a free and INDEPENDANT WOMAN.

You are the only one responsible for your feelings. You are the only one responsible for your actions. You are the only one responsible for your choices. And you are the only that should matter when it comes to your own validation and self worth.

Anonymous said...

It is not your fault halima. BW have been conditioned to take so much garbage and abuse over the years that it can be hard to break the cycle sometime.

Let Love Rule said...

And Anon,

If you look at the top of the page of these blogs , you'll see a link that says create blog. Hit that, fill out the info and you're in business. Easy schmeasy.

Maybe you could call you blog BM suck.

PS: I'll never come.

dottie said...

Anon, if you really feel this way, I suggest you become an activist as well as start your own blog. Believe me, if opportunity arises, I'm gonna be on the defense when it comes to knit wits taking down black women...which that hasn't happened at all, so I'm not too worried.

I had a very close friend of mine who was insulted by a BM, while he was with his WG. She told him to stop making fun of her. He singled her out from her haircut, her weight, to the clothes she wore that day. Believe me, it pissed me off that I wasn't there to tell the SOB off! While it may not look like there are non-black folks that don't care, they do.

Daphne said...

like wte and dmbw, this film is going to reinforce the popular notion that bw bear a greater weight for making things work out for black relationships. i was so suprised that bw seem to have been sucked in again!

Exactly! I was reading an interracial message board, and there was a topic on his latest movie. I was astounded by the level of support for the movie from black women who have otherwise revealed themselves as clear-eyed about other meaningful issues. A woman at work was singing its praises to me, although I couldn't comment at the time because I had not seen the movie (had a pretty good idea that it would lay most of the blame on black women, and Perry more than exceeded my expectations). There was another black woman who recognized his issue with black women, but still wanted his movies to be successful because "it would pave the way for other black directors, producers, and playwrights." There is a huge blind spot there, and it's a shame. Even when I was all about "a black man only" with regard to romantic relationships, his plays and movies struck a dissonant cord with me. I do wonder what it will take for more women to see that Perry is not about uplifting black PEOPLE, but black men. Which is fine, it's his money and production company, but I fail to see why black women have to be borderline insulted simultaneously in the process.

Thanks to all men, black and non black, who are true men and don't feel the need to blame women for failing relationships and/or who can man up and accept personal responsibility for his role, as it takes two to tango. I, for one, appreciate you!

roslynholcomb said...

I wish I would let what men I don't even know think have any impact on me whatever. When will black women buy a clue that black men don't owe us jack, and we don't owe them anything either? That is the ultimate liberation, it's like having an anchor removed from your neck.

Anonymous said...

let love rule, you say you here me, and I really want to believe that. But let me ask you the following question. Are you saying that a young Black Girl, say age 7 is supposed to overlook:

the fact that the boys with her same skin color think she is ugly and openly let her know by fawning over White and other not-Black girls.


the fact that her daddy did not think enough of her or her mommy to stick around.


the fact that the the only time she sees herself on tv or in movies it is as a fat, loud, unfeminine, caricature of a workhorse who everyone is laughing at.


the fact that no girls in ostensbly Black music videoes (The ones not made by a BW performer) look like her.


the fact that she is expected to grow up to be not a writer, doctor, businesswoman, actress, singer, politician, fashion designer, or scientist, but a "babby mamma" raising kids by HERSELF that were made by BW who prefer Blondes.


that if she complains about any of this too many other girls and women who look just like her will shut her down and tell her to hush and stop being a traitor, spoiled, and accept her suffering, take it, and like it.

And become this self-confident, self-loving, well-rounded, independet human being who can take on the world and never flinches?


Is that what you are saying?


Somehow I doubt anyone expects this of little White girls.


NOBODY believes in the perserverance and strength of BW more than me, but asking ANYBODY to overcome such hurdles and mistreatment is just too much if you ask me.

And the fact of the matter is that BW HAVE by and large overcome all of that crap for years, but at what price to their emotional well-being and self-esteem? Is "making it" really worth it if at the end of the day you are an emotionally destroyed wreck crying on the inside with no consolation who just "keeps on keepin' on" on the outside while getting no recogntion or respect for it?

Anonymous said...

dottie, me starting my own blog? I will have to give that a lot of thought, but thank you, I appreciate your input a great deal.


let love rule, thank you to you too for your input, and explanation on how to start a blog. As for the title, I like it, think it is very funny, and think that it needs to be said, because what has been and what is still being done to BW DOES suck. So the idea of a blog like that does seem very appealing indeed, since there are so many blogs and sites in cyeberspace slandering and insulting BW, and I would really regret you never visiting (Sigh, there's that high road stuff again!) it. That would make me sad, because your wit and intelligence would certainly be an asset. But since BM are above criticism in the minds of so many people, the blog would probably get spammed into oblivion. If I do start a blog, it will be about celebrating, and praising BW, and defending them against those who hurt and slander them, like BM and their White girlfriends.

Anonymous said...

I know there are many not-Black folks who care dottie. That is the point I am trying to make. I feel bad for your friend and his girlfriend having to put up with that clown. That is the kind of things that make me so angry.

Anyway, I like how you are a true defender of BW!

Anonymous said...

roslynholcomb, do you also think that the men and women of other races do not owe each other anything?


I keep seeing on here that "BM do not owe BW anything". Well you know what guys? A LOT of people outside of these BW WM inter-racial dating circles very much agree with you. The trouble is I see NOBODY except you guys saying that BW also do not owe BM anything. Now why is that?

Let Love Rule said...

Daphne said...
I do wonder what it will take for more women to see that Perry is not about uplifting black PEOPLE, but black men.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Well I guess I'll sound the dissenting voice here. I haven't seen the newest film, but the other 2 or 3 films I saw were filled with abusive ridiculous BM. Now to be fair he did have responsible males in the films, but the plots in general revolved around BW being abused by BM (successfull BM at that).

From my POV, his films seem to advocate that BW be more accepting of economically lower class BM who may not have as much money, but offer respect and love to BW. I understand that that's a different issue that some BW may have problems with, but I think it's unfair to say for instance that his portrayal of BM is all good and BW all bad.

I'm going to go see that film ASAP!

Halima said...

that if she complains about any of this too many other girls and women who look just like her will shut her down and tell her to hush and stop being a traitor, spoiled, and accept her suffering, take it, and like it.

And become this self-confident, self-loving, well-rounded, independet human being who can take on the world and never flinches?


Is that what you are saying?


Somehow I doubt anyone expects this of little White girls.


anon i am totally with you on this point and many of us seem to expect bw to develope 'self--esteem' even when they have been undercut all their lives! to me this is totally ludicros and more the fact that we accept she should be able to manage it regardless.

the lack of consideration and incredulity when bw fall short irks me to know end. however you did jump into the discussion rather awkwardly attacking people who are essentially on your team.

the fact that we do not pillory bm all they long (well some seem to think we do), does not mean we are unaware of their deeds or refuse to comment on them. it however has to flow natural from the discussion and the title and body of this particular blog post doesnt really lend itself to a session of that!

if you have a particular passion to uplift younger girls i would encourage you in this work because our daughters are more or less abandoned in all this desperation to uplift bm.

Let Love Rule said...

Anon,


You are obviously very passionate in your defense of BW, and I do believe in something of righteous anger. That type of anger is consistent displayed by Gina MacCauley on her blog whataboutourdaughters.

I think protecting and uplifting BW is a wonderful thing, which is in my mind blogs like Aimee's are trying to do.

But what is it that you say...
"If I do start a blog, it will be about celebrating, and praising BW, and defending them against those who hurt and slander them, like BM and their White girlfriends."

Well I think it's a noble thing to celebrate BW, but a total waste of time to focus on BM/WW. Why?

I really believe that you have a basic issue with BM DATING WW, that you view the very idea of IRR between the two as slander.

Taken a step further, the underlining message is that BM should only be with BW. As if BM belong to "us". I just don't believe that. BM have a right to find love the same way I do. If they want to date WW. Great!!!!!!

Now as for all the insults and such, not every BW has had these experiences. But apparently enough women have to make it a serious issue. And I agree with you on media portrayal.

So if you advocate a cultural shift from the historical racism and devaluation(which is what it is) that bw have and do suffer then I'm with you. Because the bm you're talking about are afflicted with the racism. And we need all the help we can get to change the culture.

But the fact is not all BM are evil, insulting, or hateful. That's why these blogs have made a distinction by calling the racist, foolish BM, damaged beyond repair (DBR).

They should also be called (JSA) for just stay away, because no amount of arguing or reasoning will change these men's viewpoint. Your best defense is to ignore them and get away from them as soon possible.

So if your want to focus on DBR men fine, but calling all bm who date ww DBR, I simply think is not right.

Let Love Rule said...

OOOOOOOO Anon,

You know I think you must have really touched a nerve, because I really feeling you and your pain right now.

I think you should serious consider starting a blog focusing on letting bw vent their frustration and anger at whatever is going on in their lives.

I think this might help alot of women to know that they are not alone. But I also think it would be important to help women find constructive things to do with the anger, instead of just sitting in the stew. And I think the best way to do that is to encourage bw to get toxic people out of their lifes, to reaffirm the sanctity and value of ALL LIFE (including one's own), to help bw take care of themselves especially their health and to encourage finanicial independence and self preservation.

If one is focused on these things there's not alot of time to be angry, and when a woman becomes stronger in these ways, silly people who try to bring you down just become a joke.

Anonymous said...

Thank you very much for the support halima.


And if any of you lovely women here felt insulted by me, I sincerly apologize. Please forgive me.

Anonymous said...

let love rule, let me explain to you a little better my views concerning BM dating WW. I choose not to focus on it, but it is all around me, it is constantly promoted, celebrated, justified, defended, accepted and somehow seen as "normal".

But when a BW dates a WM (Or other not-Black man) it is NOT looked at the same way, it is looked at as quite terrible, wrong, and ugly.

I have a huge problem with that double standard.


Also, as far as me thinking all BM who date WW are a certain way, let me say this again. I look at that little statistic that says 70% of BW are single, and then every time I turn around I see a BM with a WW or another not-Black girfriend, and then I see most BW steadfastly holding out for a BM and being aghast and disgusted at the suggestion of dating a WM or other not-Black man, yet she remains SINGLE, and that tells me that something is wrong, very wrong.

Therfore, it is extremely difficult for me to believe that ALL of these BM are simply "falling in love" with all of these WW.

Also, what I was saying was that the focus of that blog would be to celebrate BW, but if BW came on and vented about being insulted by you know who, of you know who acting like an imbecile while she was out with her White boyfriend, or about how you know who made her feel bad because she is dark with kinky hair, she would be supported, and you know who would not be let of the hook for doing those things.


DBR JSA. I like those terms. They are quite appropriate.

Let Love Rule said...

Well Anon,

You finally have me nodding my head in agreement, because there is definitely a double standard. And I see no issue with letting women vent.

I feel I'm learning something from you, but I still think it's a problem for instance to BLAME BM for all of BW problems, which is how your comments came off to me.

I simply advocate women taking responsibility for their own lifes and destiny and serving their own hearts.

And I guess I also have an issue with those bw that see wm as second fiddle or not TIM (the ideal mate). I think if you're only interested in WM because you can't find the bm you really want, something wrong. And there seems to be a tit for tat mentality among some women like,"oh since you dating a ww, I'll date a wm." Something wrong.

I just think people should view each other as people, and if a good man that you're attracted to comes along you should have no qualms with going out with him.

I also think if you're filled with hurt and anger over your treatment from anyone you should seek healing. And i think this is what you're talking about. Many BW need healing in their lives. I can't argue with that.

Daphne said...

From my POV, his films seem to advocate that BW be more accepting of economically lower class BM who may not have as much money, but offer respect and love to BW. I understand that that's a different issue that some BW may have problems with, but I think it's unfair to say for instance that his portrayal of BM is all good and BW all bad.

I understand your point, although I disagree. Yes, on the surface, it would seem that his films advocate BW opening their minds to BM who may not have much money. For me, one problem is a fundamental compatibility issue. For example, in Daddy's Little Girls, the main characters get together. But they seem to have nothing in common other than their blackness. In addition, Gabrielle Union's character came off as a raving bitch, before they hooked up of course - why? Because she's a successful lawyer? And never mind that the man lied to his lawyer/girlfriend about his past because he's just "a black man trying to get by." Nope, no issues regarding honesty to be explored there! Or, how irresponsible he was as a father (why not take your girls to your neighbor, who lives right next door, when you have to work?). Also, on his TV show, there was a scene in which the husband and wife were talking, and the husband, who is quite rotund himself, had the audacity to make a fat joke about his wife to her face. Yet, no snappy comebacks from her! In his latest movie particularly, it was made clear, to me at least, that the husbands' unhappiness was singularly correlated to their wives' flaws. Come on now - as long as Perry has been a playwright, he hasn't learned to write of the complexities of romantic relationships? The husbands were presented as either flawless or "just trying to get by" with little personal accountability for their actions. This isn't some writer who is wet behind the ears - I'd argue that he has had built his career on highlighting the struggling black man doing his best to get by, with little exploration of the man himself, and juxtaposing the black woman as someone who just needs to see his side of things. Granted, he is hardly the only director who presents shallow characters, but he also doesn't get my automatic support just because he's one of the few successful, well known black men in Hollywood. However, I realize that perspective puts me in a small minority.

That said, I do agree that he doesn't paint all black men as bad. Financially successful men seem to be a source of disdain for him. I will respectfully disagree on the BW as good perspective in Perry's films. Her intrinsic value is directly tied to her acceptance of the struggling black man regardless of his issues, and I've yet to see a woman who was shown in a good light outside of that acceptance.

Taylor-Sara said...

Do you see how the trolls come in
and try to subvert the self-esteem of BW time and again?
Now somebody tell me what did 2 loser black men talking sh*t about black women on the job have to do with this discussion? Why the hell throw their sorry asses into this convo in the first place? Because we are not allowed to ever simply concentrate on US, thats why. I personally do not give a good damn what BM do I am soooo over them...
http://sarasbloginterraciallove.blogspot.com/

Let Love Rule said...

Let Love Rule said...
Daphne said...
I will respectfully disagree on the BW as good perspective in Perry's films. Her intrinsic value is directly tied to her acceptance of the struggling black man regardless of his issues, and I've yet to see a woman who was shown in a good light outside of that acceptance.
=++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I didn't know Perry had a tv show and I haven't seen the new movie yet.

But I have to agree with what you said of the BW. His good BW always wind up with basically working class men and in your example one with some issues. As I remember in Daddy's Little Girl there was a particularly disturbing mother figure who basically wanted to prostitute her children. I think that's a reoccuring themes as well because I think in another of the medea films the mom was basically trying to pimp her daughter.

Come to think of it, the women are are either good in their acceptance of lower class BM or they are shallow gold-diggers, druggies, or Medea "herself". All stereotypes.

OK, you right, I'm wrong. : )

But my point was I'm not sure he's uplifting bm at bw expense because he has so many negative portrayals of bm as well.

Daphne said...

OK, you right, I'm wrong. : )

Gosh, I sincerely apologize if I came off like that. I understand the point you were making and I do get long-winded when it comes to issues that make me go "gah!" Perry's productions just happens to be one of those. I haven't seen all of his plays and movies, either, and you're quite right in that he has negative portrayals of BM in his works as well.

Let Love Rule said...

Daphne,

No need to apologize.
I'm simply agreeing with you. I have not been offended by anything you've said. And I don't think you were long winded at all.

dottie said...

Aimee, you might start putting the comments on moderation sooner or later.

Halima said...

This isn't some writer who is wet behind the ears - I'd argue that he has had built his career on highlighting the struggling black man doing his best to get by, with little exploration of the man himself, and juxtaposing the black woman as someone who just needs to see his side of things.

thanks for going into details daphne, bw just love to be berated for not upholding bm. Masochism and matrydom must turn them all the way on, nothing gets them running faster to the cinema than a film telling them how they need to 'race to the bottom' lol!

caligirl94117 said...

"I will respectfully disagree on the BW as good perspective in Perry's films. Her intrinsic value is directly tied to her acceptance of the struggling black man regardless of his issues, and I've yet to see a woman who was shown in a good light outside of that acceptance."

Wow, Daphne, you should be a film critic! I have only seen one of his productions, and you nailed it! It didn't occur to me at the time, and I didn't even analyze what was going on. In "Madea Goes to Jail", the two-timing woman is studying for a business degree, and he paints her as a non-nurturing wife and mother. She's the embodiment of selfishness. He writes her prison guard husband as a flawless man who was duped by her. Lastly, that man goes on to date a lawyer who nurses his wounds from the failed marriage. I was most troubled by the scene when the two fall in love, she says she's a Christian and doesn't beleive in pre-marital sex, Perry (as Madea) says, "oh, that's a trap!" in reply to her statement of values. If a black woman wants to delay intimacy until marriage, that's a trap?! That was my clue that this would be the ONLY Madea/Perry movie I would see. If we aren't allowed to hold the standard of marriage as a goal and not engage in premarital sex, that's pitiful. So, black woman are not to expect men with social and economic parity along with delaying sex until marriage?! WTH?!

Anonymous said...

Interesting blog article about black women and interracial.

http://sangraneth.blogspot.com/

Taylor-Sara said...

Aimee
your arguments are always so well-thought out and persuasive. and I would agree totally. I was wondering if you could be persuaded to come over to my blog and give your opinion as to why more and more bw are marrying wm and what you think are the most attractive characteristics of wm.
thanks so much -sara
http://sarasbloginterraciallove.blogspot.com/

Aimee said...

Anonymous said...

BW get slandered all the time both in real life, and in cyberspace, and a good amount of that slander comes from BM & WW, especially if they are dating each other. The slander is cold, cruel, and very insensitive to the plight of BW. Yet it seems to me that in YOUR space, you guys want to take the high road as it were, in regards to how you talk about WW & BM.

My only question, anonymous, is what I wrote in this post that gave you the impression that I was taking any road when it comes to BW or WW, high or low? My post was about US, not THEM.

I do not think they deserve that, and I believe in giving as good as you get, an eye for an eye. They (WW & BW) pull no punches in slandering and insulting BW, and I feel you should give it back to them in kind, that is all. For how long is the bias and abuse against BW going to go unanswered or unchallenged? If BW will not stand up for and defend each other, then tell me who will?

The purpose of this blog is to provide a forum for discussions of interest and importance to BW and those who love us. Topics of discussion may include BM and WW, or slander and insults that BW face more generally, and how we can work together to combat those images.

But this blog is not, nor will it be, exclusively devoted to those subjects. I respect your position that we should focus on "giving" it to hateful BM and WW in kind. But powerful people don't simply rely on defensiveness and reaction to protect and care for themselves in the face of attacks. They recognize and celebrate their power and beauty as well as repelling insults. And they don't just focus on "getting back" at wrongdoers; they invest in their own health, peace and well-being. The fact that they exist in a place of self-confidence and serentity in and of itself serves to intimidate those who would attack them. The BM/WW couples you are referring to are motivated at least in part, if not in whole, by the idea that we are helpless and miserable, and that they are the cause of our plight--that by "laughing" together at us, they have left us hurt, bitter, and obsessed with them--that they can control us. Well, that simply isn't the case for me and a whole lot of other BW. We control ourselves.

The truth I want you to face is that BW have been betrayed by who should have protected and loved them the most. This must be acknowledged, I am all for BW getting on with your lives, I just want you to give it those who have hurt you and not care about their feelings, because they have already shown me very clearly that they do not care about yours.

Give them what? If I see wrong, I have no problem pointing it out. And when sisters are hurt and have to express that hurt in order to heal, I support them 110% in that effort.

But I have to give you the same response I give to the people who don't like me talking about BM or using the term "DBRBM" or whatever: I talk about what I am moved to talk about. Seeing a BM walking down the street with a WW does not move me to automatically feel "betrayed." Implicit in much of your argument seems to be the belief that BW must turn to IRRs because they have been "betrayed," failed and abandoned by BM, in the same way you would settle for a bowl of cornmeal mush instead of filet mignon--and that we should therefore still be primarily focused on seething with rage at the men who have left us behind--and who we still really want if only they would act right.

I guess that's the Kola Boof argument that you can see being made at Classical One's blog right now. That's not where my head is at, and I frankly, don't think it's healthy place for anyone's head to be at.

To me, being hurt, expressing hurt, and refusing to be hurt anymore is stage that you move through in life; you don't just stay there, indefinitely engaging damaged people who aren't ever going to get to any place better. Why stay stuck there with them, searching out every outrage by a DBRBM to scold and berate? They keep insulting and mocking BW, and basing their own romantic choices on our supposed "failings," because they cannot stop thinking about us. No matter how far they run, they need us. What have we accomplished for ourselves by simply aping that pathological behavior--when we DON'T need them?

You have to confront an enemy from a place of strength--and strength requires more than anger. It requires a sincere and true belief in yourself and your value. That's what I was writing about here, and that would be my predominant message to black girls and young women: you're not going to be celebrated and put on a pedastal by the larger society.

But look at the women who ARE--mutilating themselves with surgeries, starving themselves into non-existence, rubbing dyes and chemicals into their skin to change their color. Has all that "adoration" really made them feel sure of themselves? Do most of the young white women you know really respect themselves? The one advantage to being marginalized from that system of beauty is that since it can't bestow your esteem, it also can't take it away. Use that space to develop it from within.

Daphne said...

The one advantage to being marginalized from that system of beauty is that since it can't bestow your esteem, it also can't take it away.

Quite true! Oh, I hope that more black women will begin to realize this and pass it on to young black girls. I hope that I will remember this during a time when I'm feeling marginalized. I hope that I can encourage a woman or girl who may feel that way. I hope.

Felicia said...

WHOA YOU are HEAVY DUTY Aimee!

I whole heartedly agree with everything you've stated in your 11:07 AM comment.

BW - those who have been repeatedly traumatized and not - should reread that message of yours repeatedly if necessary. Print it out and post it on the refrigerator.

Internalize the truth (and freedom) in it.

Let Love Rule said...

Aimee said...

... powerful people don't simply rely on defensiveness and reaction to protect and care for themselves in the face of attacks.... And they don't just focus on "getting back" at wrongdoers; they invest in their own health, peace and well-being. The fact that they exist in a place of self-confidence and serentity in and of itself serves to intimidate those who would attack them.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Aimee, you are just awesome in your ability to articulate truth and wisdom. You are another one that needs to WRITE A BOOK.

You see Anon, this is the great secret of life. You must learn to laugh at the insecure people that try to bring you down. And if you just can't learn to contain that little tit for tat revenge demon, redefine what revenge is to empower yourself.

Your strength combined with your laughter IS THE BEST REVENGE. Because they have shown themselves too silly to be taken seriously.

The best revenge is to be better than them. The best revenge is to succeed in life and get the things you want. The best revenge is to do EXACTLY as you please because it pleases you and not care about what they think.

The best revenge is to be confident and happy. Being stuck in anger is just a waste of time and disempowers you. But being and having everything you ever wanted, that's being powerful and that's the best revenge.

Miriam said...

Say, speaking of movies, ABW was discussing various queens that existed and I suggested some theatrical colleged bw maybe will start making movies,but she came up with a better idea...YouTube!

just thought i'd spread the idea to anyone.

Miriam said...

ABW =Anxious Black Woman

D said...

it seems to me like these conversations have evolved to a deeper level than where they were 3 months ago...

and it seems like the "wise" and most effective voices are speaking out and being recognized a higher percentage of the time.

as a single white male interested in finding a wonderful and lasting relationship, and open to whatever flavor that may be... i'm glad to see this evolution.

i don't know if this makes sense, but as a white male, the vibe i can most relate to is that a BW would respond to my flirting because she found me attractive, and because we have things in common... NOT because she feels betrayed by BM.

what's that saying... love like you've never been hurt.

and i've been seeing that more lately (and less focus on DBRBM)... which i think is healthy.

every once in a while, when someone slips back into something which sounds angry, i feel tempted to respond something like "i'm sure your pain is real, but moving past it is the only way to be happy... don't let it control you any longer..." and it seems so clear to me...

but if you ask me about situations in my life where i've felt abused, and how long it took me to get over it... i would say BW are doing pretty darn well, when all factors are considered.

black women are getting hit from both sides, figuratively. i'd probably be a little bent out of shape too. and so the wisdom shown by those who've talked about moving on, being happy with yourself, and putting priorities in order... is doubly sexy... way to go, ladies! it's kind of a buddhist / taoist thing going on : )

off the top of my head... aimee, and llr... i agree with almost every single word... keep it up.

let love rule (a phrase, not the name : ) is a great motto to live by... let all the b.s. stay in the past... and deal with the present as the present.

whether it's WM/BW relationships, BM/BW, WM/WW, BM/WW, or any other combination... let love rule. interracial... not interracial... it's all good... let love rule.

and be who you want to be with because its who you want to be with... and to the newbies who feel like you might want to be more open but aren't exactly sure... just jump in and get your feet wet... you'll figure it out soon enough if your mind can wrap itself around the idea.

and to paraphrase halima... yes, it's a little harder in some ways than a same race relationship... but if two people specifically make allowances for and conquer those obstacles... that can be a source of bonding even stronger than a "regular" relationship. in my opinion.

and when you get to that point in a relationship... all the other "crap" out there just doesn't matter, as far as your happiness.

: )

D

Let Love Rule said...

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

That's practically a poem with my made up name in it. I dig it D.

Anonymous said...

Is marriage a dumb move?

Falling in love after years of building wealth can make life complicated. Tying the knot can sometimes make it worse.
By Jennifer Merritt, Money

(Money Magazine) -- Michele Mann was doing just fine on her own, thank you. She had launched a successful interior design business, which now earns her about $100,000 a year. She'd nearly paid off the two-bedroom Phoenix condo she had bought for $450,000 in 1992. And she'd amassed a handsome portfolio.

Then, two years ago, the never-married Mann, now 56, met Charles Wally, 67, a divorced retired rancher and insurance executive who lives in nearby Scottsdale, and love changed the game plan. "We were on the same page about so many things in life," says Mann. This month they'll wed.

More from Money Magazine
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Enlarge Photo
Michele Mann and Charles Wally
Michele Mann and Charles Wally
CLOSELegally bound
Nothing kills romance like the words "my attorney." But you can't ignore what's at stake. The legal documents you'll need:
If you're getting married
Consider a prenuptial agreement, especially if you want to earmark assets for your children from a previous marriage. It will spell out how your money and property will be distributed when the marriage ends (either by divorce or death).

If you're not
You'll want to have what's called a "living-together agreement." Similar to a prenup, it specifies who owns what, which expenses and assets you'll share and what happens if you separate. Also, have a lawyer draft health-care proxies, HIPAA privacy waivers and medical powers of attorney, which will let you make health-care decisions on each other's behalf and give you rights such as hospital visitation.

No matter what
Update your wills, beneficiary designations on retirement and brokerage accounts, insurance policies and titles on your house and cars if you are fully merging your assets.



Mann and Wally are a conventional enough couple that not getting married never crossed their minds. But these days it occurs to plenty of other couples of a certain age and wealth who are put off by the risk and inconvenience of joining two financially mature households.

It's a matter of security and ease: Had Mann and Wally simply opted to live together, for example, they wouldn't have had to deal with sorting out the ownership of two homes, deciding on a succession plan for Mann's business or protecting the inheritance for Wally's four kids from his two previous marriages.

No wonder that over the past decade the number of unmarried partners over the age of 65 has increased by 70 percent. The decision to wed or not, of course, is between you, your intended and your conscience. But you should realize that from a coldhearted financial perspective, the U.S. tax code and Social Security rules don't necessarily come down in favor of marriage for people with a substantial amount of assets.

True, you'll automatically reap certain legal benefits from tying the knot, such as access to employee perks or a greater voice in health-care decisions. On the other hand, you may find yourself paying a significant price, from lost income to higher taxes. So whether you plan to say "I do," or "Let's not," be sure to ask yourself these questions first.

Will marrying lower your income?
You no doubt realize that if you're collecting alimony from your ex, you'll likely give that up when you remarry. But you may not have considered the effect on your retirement income. Remarry before age 60 and you'll lose any Social Security income you're entitled to from a previous marriage. Ditto for a pension. "If you're retired or one spouse is widowed, you're often better off just living together," says Kirk Kinder, a financial planner in Bel Air, Md.

But matrimony may triumph in this regard: It entitles you to a cut of your new wife or husband's pension and Social Security payment, and that sum may be larger than you otherwise would have collected. Get estimates for both scenarios from the Social Security Administration (use the "Detailed Benefit" calculator) and your company pension-plan administrator.

Marriage can also affect the taxes you'll pay on your Social Security benefits. As an individual you can earn $25,000 a year before your Social Security benefits are taxed. As a couple, your total income can't exceed $32,000 (for more on what counts against that threshold, see "Working in Retirement: The Real Story".)

Will marrying raise your taxes?
You may pay more income tax today if you file jointly, but much greater tax savings could come your way later. You can inherit all your spouse's assets tax-free, but an unmarried partner must pay federal estate taxes on any amount over $2 million through 2009. (In 2010 the estate tax disappears, and the exemption goes down to $1 million in 2011.)

If you plan to sell a home, you'll double how much of your profits are free from capital-gains taxes ($500,000, vs. $250,000 for a single person). Both own homes? Consider living in the place you want to sell and renting the other for two years to qualify for the $500,000 exemption, says Dallas financial planner Sean Monohan. After that, move to the home you plan to keep.

Will marriage increase your liabilities?
As a married couple, you'll usually pay lower auto insurance premiums. You may also do better by joining your new spouse's health insurance plan. As a self-employed person, Mann estimates she'll save $265 a month when she's added to Wally's retiree health insurance plan. On the flip side, being married can legally obligate you to shoulder some big expenses, such as your spouse's loan payments or credit-card debts.

Will it disinherit your kids?
If you have school-age kids, be aware that that your new spouse's income and assets will count in financial aid formulas, possibly lowering any help your children will receive. Adult children can pose a different problem: Because marriage would give your spouse first dibs on your estate, you'll need to draft a new will and possibly a trust with the help of an estate-planning attorney to keep your kids' inheritance intact.

For Mann and Wally, the hassles are a fair trade-off for building a financial future together. The couple have already made some changes to their wills - Wally is leaving Mann his house (worth just under $1 million) - and their life insurance policies. And the pair are seeking legal advice on how to handle their other assets and their estates. "On the way to the altar, there's yours, mine and ours," Mann says. "And there's trying to keep the romance alive during it all."

3 fast fixes for Mann and Wally
Choosing to marry has created some financial challenges for the couple. Monohan offers this advice for a lasting union of heart, mind and money.

Decide if the business is theirs or hers. Unless Mann and Wally sign a legal agreement specifying individual ownership, the couple would share the income as well as any liabilities from Mann's interior design business. And half would become part of Wally's estate should he die while the business is running.
Move to her house. Mann plans to sell her condo, estimated to be worth $1 million, eventually. As a single person, she can exclude only $250,000 of her $550,000 expected profit from capital-gains taxes. But if the couple live in the house for two years after they marry, they could keep $500,000 tax-free.
Use insurance for bequests. Wally wants to leave money to his four children, and Mann hopes to provide for her niece and donate to charities. They could do so by updating their wills, but a simpler method would be to make their heirs, instead of each other, the beneficiaries on each of their life insurance policies

Anonymous said...

GREAT commentary...

http://whoseamerica.blogspot.com/

"So Marry-Your-Baby-Daddy day lives on. I don't know how to feel about this because of course, it's terrible that it's necessary but marriage is apparently not stylish in the African-American community. I cannot imagine having a child without being in a happy marriage. Marry the man you love AND LIKE then have babies when you're ready. Like Michelle did."

"If you're not committed enough to marry a person, you're not committed enough to make children with them. Also, "by the age of 30, 81 percent of White women and 77 percent of Hispanics and Asians will marry, but that only 52 percent of Black women will marry by that age."

Taylor-Sara said...

Aimee
I honestly think one of the main obstacles affecting women (unmarried) is that many women are attracted to bastards, and I feel like it is something we must get over. Marriage and bastards do not mix. I would love it if you would come to my blog take the bastard test and give your opinion-thanks

http://sarasbloginterraciallove.com/

Anonymous said...

"Taylor-Sara said...
Aimee
I honestly think one of the main obstacles affecting women (unmarried) is that many women are attracted to bastards, and I feel like it is something we must get over. Marriage and bastards do not mix. I would love it if you would come to my blog take the bastard test and give your opinion-thanks



Here is a viable solution to avoiding the bastards ...


Why couldn’t a wife, of any race, whose best female friend
is a Black single mom, approach her husband with the
request that they as a couple include her best friend + kids
as part of their family, with her husband becoming the
adoptive father of the kids of the single mom and becoming
husband to the single mom in concubinage (she becomes his
concubine by informal covenant and contract, in a ceremony
of their own design with the exchange of their covenants
with his wife as witness, instead of by civil or formal legal
means, since bigamy and polygamy are illegal in America).
The kids of the single mom get a committed and already
successful father figure, and the single mom gets a husband
with whom she can soul-bond and count on, plus she gets to
see her best friend a whole lot more. Real love can
overcome jealousy and envy, if they selflessly work at the
marriage, as you would have to in any marriage.

A compassionately cherishing husband, who consistently
compassionately cherishes his own wife, thus making her
very secure with him, should be able to come to his
compassionate and generous wife and ask her to
thoughtfully consider such a controversial proposal as the
following: “Darling, I’m very concerned about our Black
sister who is struggling as a single mom and having a very
hard time. I believe that the conditions in our own family
would allow us to be of considerable help to her in her crisis.
Please think about us accepting her and her kids as part of
our family, with me as father-figure to her kids, with me as
husband to her and her as concubine to me—-with lifelong
commitments for the sake of both her and her children.” Of
course this would follow the husband and wife having
thoroughly discussing and considering the issue in general
before any specific action is taken. It would take a very
secure wife to share her husband, but compassion has
moved people to heroic and selfless actions throughout
history. The real needs of the fatherless children would be
met. The real needs of an adult female would be met, who
had been sexually loved and who may have a genuine
sexual appetite with no one to meet it in a context of soul-
bonding, commitment and genuine caring about her as a
whole person.

*You can never persuade me the single mother lifestyles
described above are better than first, a one-honorable-man-
one-wife loving and committed relationship; or second, (if
there are no honorable unmarried men willing to commit
and cherish) a one-honorable-man-one wife-one-concubine
loving and committed relationship. My Black play-sister
Elaine told me the easiest thing to get, for her as a Black
female, is a hard dick and a panting male. I asked how easy
it was to find a male who would commit maritally and
honorably to her and her well being, for life. She got real
quiet and acknowledged how rare it was to find such an
honorable man. Given the choices of no sex, lesbianism, sex
without commitment and polygyny, she said it was
something to seriously consider.

*Since we, as humans, are basically selfish, most of us would
not be inclined to
participate in a polygynous marriage, especially today’s
modern woman. Most of the 40% of Black women who
never marry don’t want to marry unless they can have it
their own way, which would not include sharing a husband.
Broad is the way that leads to family self-destruction and
many there be that go that way; but narrow is the way to
family-salvation and a remnant few that are willing to do
almost anything to save their children (especially their
sons), their moral integrity and their feminine virtue will
make the hard decisions necessary. Some will find other
ways (support groups, counseling, a benevolent male
friend) to be the firm but loving and supportive mothers
they need to be, a few will be open to the polygyny option,
whether Christian, Jew or Moslem.

Trula said...

Are all these conversations about interracial dating? sheesh

I didn't read any of that in the post.

I think if a black woman really wants to get married to a nice man, that she make herself a nice marriageable woman. So many of ya'll post crap about black men and how tired you are of them, well I am tired of reading you complain about it. Consider that because so many of you don't sound ready for marriage, not really, and you want to blame it on black men. Who cares if some color-struck black man 'flaunts' his blonde girlfriend? He's a loser, you don't want him anyway (seriously, do you really want to marry somebody color-struck?), so keep it moving.

There ARE plenty of black men who are nice, decent, and who want to marry black women.

Also, if you go into an IR relationship with such a stank attitude towards black men, you will end up with some non-black loser...because who else will settle for being chosen because you felt you couldn't have/find the man you really wanted. No one wants to be second best. If you want to be with a black man, go for it. If you want to date someone not-black, go for it! But don't do it out of misery or a sense of deprivation. You will just make yourself and somebody else feel bad. Think about it! How would you feel if some white guy was like, I'm open to dating black women because all white women are mean and don't like white men.

You'd feel second-rate and like crap, I bet.

Trula said...

I also wanted to say, I agree with the suggestion that anon(s) start their own blogs. And I love the convo on Tyler Perry movies, although I don't agree with a lot of it.

Riss said...

Hello everyone...Hello Aimee! I'd first like to say that I have thouroughly enjoyed this blog and will be reading each post to catch up! Great work!

Secondly...i've always been told that you can't truly love without first loving yourself...you get what you put out into the universe, if it's ugly, beauty will not reciprocate...

Sisters have to realize this important truth before thier IBM (ideal black man) or whatever their taste becomes a reality...

Love is beautiful, complicated and needed...marriage is the canvas...

Anonymous said...

Trula said
Also, if you go into an IR relationship with such a stank attitude towards black men, you will end up with some non-black loser...


Your attitude is more 'stank' than anything ever written on this blog, and you want to educate folks how to behave, what a laugh!

Anonymous said...

Aimee, (Sorry for the rather long delay in answering) you certainly are a smart cookie. That was an inspiring post. If a given BF can manage to make these people and their garbage irrelevent & invisible, then I am all for it.I applaud her and support her. But the ones who cannot, what about them? I think they need to be supported and protected, loved and uplifted, so these very deep and painful wounds can be healed. Also I am not convinced that any female can be made to feel beautiful and special without some kind of imput from males. Close yes, but completely? I am not so sure about that. I could be wrong, but this is one to ponder for sure.

Anyway, I like talking to you. You help BW, and that is all I really care about in the end.

Yes, I have noticed that about the so-called "queens of the world"- the WW, and it tells me all I need to know. My answer is, "And people actually have the nerve to pick on BW?" You have seriously got to be kidding me.

Until the next time my freind.

Anonymous said...

Trula, OFF COUSRE their are all these "Nice, decent Black men who want to marry Black women".


That is why 70% of BW are single.


Get real. And save the defense of BM please. If you think they are so great and such angels who NEVER hurt BW, then why do you not go to a BM & WW IR-focused blog and talk about how great they are there?


The women here who talk "crap" about BM on here talk those FACTS because your precious BM have HURT THEM VERY DEEPLY.


You are very much out of line.